Sept. 29, 2011
As a battleground state, one
can expect that
In 1992
In 2000, Gore won
Do you agree that these
results indicate that
In 2004, Kerry won
Is it just a coincidence
that Bush’s 2004 Oregon mail-in ballot vote share (with its mandated random
audit) declined from his 2000 share while his vote shares increased in
Democratic and battleground states with unverifiable DRE and mechanical vote
counts and no mandated audit of optical scan ballots?
Regarding the 2004 election,
which do you believe?
a)
One would logically expect that
Kerry would do better than Gore in highly Democratic New York State. But that
was not the case. Gore won NY by 25% (60-35%). Kerry won by only 18% (58-40%).
Not logical, especially since Kerry won the exit poll by 30% (64-34%). The exit
poll makes sense; Kerry had a 5-1 edge in returning Nader 2000 voters.
Do you believe the NY
recorded vote or the exit poll?
Considering the results from
2000 and 2004, do you believe a) that Obama’s
Consider the following:
1. In 2000,
Gore won
2. At 7:33pm the 2004 National Exit
Poll indicated that Kerry won returning Nader 2000 voters 65-13% over Bush. After allocating Nader voters, Gore’s margin
becomes 50.6-48.4%.
3. Kerry exceeded Gore’s margin in
4. Kerry won the exit pollster’s
5. Kerry won the national aggregate
unadjusted state exit polls by 52.0-47.0%, a 1.0% margin discrepancy from the
telephone survey.
6. The average WPD In 14 battleground states was a whopping 7.5%. In Oregon, the telephone
survey WPD equivalent was just 1.8%.
7. At 7:33pm the National Exit Poll indicated
that Kerry won returning Nader 2000 voters 65-13% over Bush. After
allocating Nader voters, Gore’s margin becomes 50.6-48.4%.
8. Obama won
To summarize,
Now let’s consider New York. In 2000, Gore won the state by 25% (60.2-35.2%). In
2004, Kerry’s recorded margin declined to 18.3% (58.4-40.1%). But Kerry won the
unadjusted exit poll by 64.5-34.0%, a 12.2% WPD. Why the sharp reversal of fortune?
Consider the largest counties
in
Gore won Multnomah by
63.5-28.2%. Kerry won it by 71.6-27.4%, an 8.9% HIGHER margin.
Gore won
It’s an Urban Legend: Bush recorded vote share increased sharply from
2000 to 2004 in heavily Democratic urban areas but declined in rural locations,
except for
1)
2) In 2004, the average
paper ballot precinct WPD was 2% and 12% for levers.
3) Kerry’s margin was 3.7%
higher than Gore’s in
4) Kerry exceeded Gore’s
margin by 8.9% in
5)
6)
7)
8)
9) Gore won NY by
60.2-35.2%. Allocating the 4.6% Nader/other vote, Kerry wins by 63-36% -
assuming equal Gore/Bush defection.
10) According to the Preliminary National Exit Poll, before it was forced to match the vote count, 10% of
returning Bush and 8% of returning Gore voters defected.
Assuming these rates,
Kerry’s NY margin increased 2% to 64-35%,
matching the unadjusted NY State Exit Poll.
11) Gore did slightly better
than his 60.2% NY recorded share after allocating 180,000 net uncounted votes.
12) In the two elections in
which
13) In the three elections
in which a Bush was the incumbent, NY exit polls had an average 8.0 WPD.
13) In the last three elections,
late NY Democratic (paper) vote shares were 7% higher than Election Day (lever)
shares.
14) In 2000, 2004 and 2008,
the average of NY Late (paper ballot) vote shares was within 1% of the
unadjusted exit poll.
If one ignores all of the above, there is every
reason for New Yorkers to “love those levers” – except for this: Even if
everyone who came to the polls voted and all the lever machines performed
perfectly, the fact remains that votes are counted by proprietary computer
software, not open source, which can easily be programmed to switch votes that
may or may not have been entered accurately.
Ay, there’s the rub.
In 2004, the exit pollsters
reported that lever voting machine precincts had a 12% error (WPD) rate.
Optical scanners and touch screens were 7%. Paper ballot precincts had the
lowest (2%). Is the fog
lifting? What happened in
2004 should be very clear by now.
In the 2008 NY primary, zero
votes were originally reported for Obama in nearly eighty minority precincts.
Many New Yorkers love the levers. They have been led to believe that because
levers are not computers, they are not subject to vote-switching and therefore
essentially fraud-free. But lever precinct totals are tabulated on central
computers which can be programmed to switch votes. And there are no paper
ballots to verify the count – except for late provisional and absentee ballots
which comprise about 7% of votes cast.
In
Oregonians don’t worry about
insufficient precinct levers, machine failures, vote counts terminating at 99,
stuck levers, long lines, intimidation by poll workers, and unverifiable vote
counts.
No wonder Oregonians are
happy with their voting system. Why don't the other 49 states follow suit? They
should HAVA look at how
National
2000 Gore Bush Margin Gore Bush Margin Gore Bush Margin
Recorded 48.4 47.9 0.5 47.0 46.5 0.5 60.2 35.2 25.0
Exit Poll 49.4 46.9 2.5 na na na 61.9 33.6 28.3
Rec + Nader 50.6 48.4 2.2 51.2 47.4 3.8 63.2 35.8 27.4
2004 Kerry Bush Margin Kerry Bush Margin Kerry Bush Margin
Recorded 48.3 50.7 -2.4 51.4 47.2 4.2 58.4 40.1 18.3
Exit Poll 52.0 47.0 5.0 52.3 46.3 6.0 64.5 34.0 30.5
2008 Obama McCain Margin Obama McCain Margin Obama McCain Margin
Recorded 52.9 45.6 7.3 56.8 40.4 16.4 62.8 36.1 26.7
True 58.0 40.3 17.7 57.1 40.7 16.4 67.4 31.8 35.6
Note: The declining trend in net uncounted votes was reversed in 2004.
The exit poll discrepancies were small in 1996 and 2000 when
The exit poll discrepancies were high in 1988, 1992, 2004 and 2008 when Bush 1 and 2 were president.
Net Recorded
Vote 75/25 Adj Unctd Unadjusted
Exit Poll
Cast Recorded
Unctd Dem Rep Unctd Dem Rep WPD Dem Rep
2008 7722 7595 127 62.8% 36.1% 1.6% 63.0% 35.9% (17.5) 71.5% 27.3%
2004 7698 7391 307 58.4% 40.1% 4.0% 59.0% 39.5% (12.2) 64.5% 34.0%
2000 7004 6823 181 60.2% 35.2% 2.6% 60.6% 35.0% (3.3) 61.9% 33.6%
1996 6823 6316 507 59.5% 30.6% 7.4% 60.6% 30.2% 2.1 58.4% 31.7%
1992 7613 6927 686 49.7% 33.9% 9.0% 52.0% 33.1% (4.6) 52.0% 31.6%
1988 7174 6486 688 51.6% 47.5% 9.6% 53.9% 45.4% (7.2) 55.2% 43.9%
Election
Day (lever) Late (paper)
Vote Dem Share Vote Dem Share Exit Poll
2000 6,270 3,747 59.8% 552 361 65.4% 61.9%
2004 6,892 3,993 57.9% 499 321 64.3% 64.5%
2008 7,011 4,360 62.2% 584 412 70.7% 71.5%
Total 20,174 12,100 60.0% 1,635 1,094 66.9% 66.0%
http://www.co.multnomah.or.us/dbcs/elections/election_information/voting_in_oregon.shtml
2004 Total Kerry Bush Other Undervote Overvote
Votes 362,694 259,585 99,439 3,670 1,831 1,005
Share 100% 71.6% 27.4% 1.0% 64.6% 35.4%
2000 Total Gore Bush Other Undervote Overvote
Votes 296,685 188,441 83,677 24,567 1,658 1,433
Share 100% 63.5% 28.2% 8.3% 53.6% 46.4%
Change 66,009 71,144 15,762 -20,897
Share 100%
81.9% 18.1%
New York-Kings County
(
2004 Total Kerry Bush Other
Votes 693,703 514,973 158,149 20,581
Share 100% 74.2% 22.8% 3.0%
2000 Total Gore Bush Other
Votes 642,563 480,135 96,609 65,819
Share 100% 74.7% 15.0% 10.2%
Change 51,140 34,838 61,540 -45,238
Share 100%
36.15% 63.85%
2004
and 2008 WPD are from telephone surveys.
The OR margin matched the national
recorded margin to within 0.1% in 1996 and 2000 (Democratic incumbent) but
deviated by an average of 8.4% in 1988, 1992, 2004, 2008 (Republican
incumbent).
In
1996, 10.2% of votes cast were uncounted. The rate has declined sharply since
the switch to mail ballots in 1998.
Votes Net Recorded 75/25% Adjusted Unadj
Exit Poll National Recorded OR-Nat
Cast Recorded
Unctd Dem Rep Unctd Dem Rep WPD Dem Rep Dem Rep Margin
2008 1845 1828 17 56.7% 40.4% 0.9% 56.9% 40.3% (1.5) 58.0% 40.2% 52.9% 45.6% 9.0%
2004 1924 1837 87 51.4 47.2 4.5 52.3 46.3 (1.8) 52.2 46.3 48.3 50.7 6.6
2000 1529 1534 (5) 47.0 46.5 -0.3 47.1 46.3 na
na na 48.4 47.9 0.0
1996 1534 1378 156 47.2 39.1 10.2 50.0 37.6 (2.4) 48.4 37.9 47.4 39.2 0.1
1992 1525 1463 62 42.5 32.5 4.1 43.8 32.2 (13.6) 49.3 25.7 43.0 37.4 4.4
1988 1293 1202 92 51.3 46.6 7.1 53.0 45.1 (7.4) 55.0 42.9 45.7 54.4 13.4
2004
|
2000 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Turnout in 2004 |
Unctd /
stuffed |
|||
|
Cast |
Official |
Unctd |
Alive |
Cast |
Official |
Unctd |
Mortality |
Gore |
Bush |
Gore |
Bush |
Other |
|
110.8 |
105.4 |
5.4 |
105.3 |
125.7 |
122.3 |
3.4 |
6.1 |
98% |
98% |
75% |
24% |
1% |
|
- |
95.1% |
4.9% |
95.0% |
- |
97.3% |
2.7% |
5.0% |
- |
- |
0% |
100% |
- |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
OR |
Vote (mil) |
|
|
Pct |
Share (%) |
|
Vote (mil) |
|
|
|||
|
2000 |
Cast |
Recorded |
Alive |
Turnout |
Mix |
Kerry |
Bush |
Other |
Kerry |
Bush |
Other |
Turnout |
|
DNV |
- |
- |
- |
0.41 |
22.5 |
57 |
41 |
2 |
0.24 |
0.17 |
0.01 |
|
|
Gore |
0.72 |
0.72 |
0.68 |
0.67 |
36.5 |
91 |
8 |
1 |
0.61 |
0.05 |
0.01 |
98% |
|
Bush |
0.71 |
0.71 |
0.67 |
0.66 |
35.9 |
10 |
90 |
0 |
0.07 |
0.59 |
0.00 |
98% |
|
Other |
0.10 |
0.10 |
0.10 |
0.09 |
5.07 |
64 |
17 |
19 |
0.06 |
0.02 |
0.02 |
98% |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
True |
1.53 |
1.53 |
1.45 |
1.84 |
|
52.89 |
45.33 |
1.78 |
0.97 |
0.83 |
0.03 |
98% |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
2000 |
Gore |
Bush |
Other |
Recorded |
51.35 |
47.19 |
1.46 |
0.94 |
0.87 |
0.03 |
1.8 |
|
|
Recorded |
46.96 |
46.52 |
6.52 |
Diff |
|
1.54 |
-1.86 |
0.32 |
0.03 |
-0.03 |
0.01 |
|
|
Cast |
46.96 |
46.52 |
6.52 |
Exit Poll |
52.2 |
46.3 |
1.5 |
1.0 |
0.9 |
0.0 |
1.8 |
|
|
ExitP |
46.96 |
46.52 |
6.52 |
Diff |
|
0.6 |
-1.0 |
0.3 |
0.0 |
0.0 |
0.0 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sensitivity Analysis |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|||
|
Bush |
|
Gore voter turnout |
|
|
Share of |
Kerry Share of DNV |
|
|||||
|
turnout |
95% |
96% |
97% |
98% |
99% |
|
Bush |
55% |
56% |
57% |
58% |
59% |
|
|
|
Kerry Share (%) |
|
|
|
|
Kerry Share (%) |
|
||||
|
95% |
53.0 |
53.1 |
53.3 |
53.4 |
53.5 |
|
12% |
53.2 |
53.4 |
53.6 |
53.8 |
54.1 |
|
96% |
52.8 |
53.0 |
53.1 |
53.2 |
53.4 |
|
11% |
52.8 |
53.0 |
53.2 |
53.5 |
53.7 |
|
97% |
52.7 |
52.8 |
52.9 |
53.1 |
53.2 |
|
10% |
52.4 |
52.7 |
52.9 |
53.1 |
53.3 |
|
98% |
52.5 |
52.6 |
52.8 |
52.9 |
53.0 |
|
9% |
52.1 |
52.3 |
52.5 |
52.8 |
53.0 |
|
99% |
52.3 |
52.5 |
52.6 |
52.7 |
52.8 |
|
8% |
51.7 |
51.9 |
52.2 |
52.4 |
52.6 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kerry Margin (mil.) |
|
|
|
|
Kerry Margin (mil.) |
|
||||
|
95% |
0.14 |
0.15 |
0.15 |
0.16 |
0.16 |
|
12% |
0.15 |
0.16 |
0.17 |
0.17 |
0.18 |
|
96% |
0.14 |
0.14 |
0.15 |
0.15 |
0.16 |
|
11% |
0.14 |
0.14 |
0.15 |
0.16 |
0.17 |
|
97% |
0.13 |
0.14 |
0.14 |
0.14 |
0.15 |
|
10% |
0.12 |
0.13 |
0.14 |
0.15 |
0.16 |
|
98% |
0.13 |
0.13 |
0.13 |
0.14 |
0.14 |
|
9% |
0.11 |
0.12 |
0.13 |
0.13 |
0.14 |
|
99% |
0.12 |
0.12 |
0.13 |
0.13 |
0.14 |
|
8% |
0.10 |
0.10 |
0.11 |
0.12 |
0.13 |
2008
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2004
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|||
|
2000 |
National |
|
|
2004 |
|
|
|
Turnout in 2004 |
Unctd /
stuffed |
|||
|
Cast |
Official |
Unctd |
Alive |
Cast |
Official |
Unctd |
Mortality |
Gore |
Bush |
Gore |
Bush |
Other |
|
110.8 |
105.4 |
5.4 |
105.3 |
125.7 |
122.3 |
3.4 |
6.1 |
98% |
98% |
75% |
24% |
1% |
|
- |
95.1% |
4.9% |
95.0% |
- |
97.3% |
2.7% |
5.0% |
- |
- |
0% |
100% |
- |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
NY |
New York Vote (mil) |
|
|
Pct |
Share (%) |
|
Vote (mil) |
|
|
|||
|
2000 |
Cast |
Recorded |
Alive |
Turnout |
Mix |
Kerry |
Bush |
Other |
Kerry |
Bush |
Other |
Total |
|
DNV |
- |
- |
- |
1.2 |
15.3 |
66.0 |
30.9 |
3.1 |
0.8 |
0.4 |
0.0 |
1.2 |
|
Gore |
4.2 |
4.1 |
4.0 |
4.0 |
51.3 |
92.9 |
5.6 |
1.5 |
3.7 |
0.2 |
0.1 |
4.0 |
|
Bush |
2.4 |
2.4 |
2.3 |
2.3 |
29.6 |
12.1 |
87.9 |
0.0 |
0.3 |
2.0 |
0.0 |
2.3 |
|
Other |
0.3 |
0.3 |
0.3 |
0.3 |
3.8 |
64.0 |
6.8 |
29.2 |
0.2 |
0.0 |
0.1 |
0.3 |
|
True |
7.0 |
6.8 |
6.7 |
7.7 |
|
63.8 |
33.9 |
2.4 |
4.9 |
2.6 |
0.2 |
7.7 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
2000 |
Gore |
Bush |
Other |
Recorded |
58.4 |
40.1 |
1.5 |
4.3 |
3.0 |
0.1 |
7.4 |
|
|
Recorded |
60.2 |
35.2 |
4.6 |
Diff |
|
5.4 |
-6.2 |
0.8 |
0.6 |
-0.4 |
0.1 |
0.3 |
|
ExitP |
61.9 |
33.6 |
4.6 |
Exit Poll |
64.5 |
34.0 |
1.5 |
4.8 |
2.5 |
0.1 |
7.4 |
|
|
Cast |
60.6 |
34.9 |
4.5 |
Diff |
|
-0.7 |
-0.1 |
0.8 |
0.1 |
0.1 |
0.1 |
0.3 |
|
True |
61.1 |
34.4 |
4.5 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bush |
|
Gore voter turnout |
|
|
Share of |
Kerry Share of DNV |
|
|||||
|
turnout |
90% |
92% |
94% |
96% |
98% |
|
Bush |
57% |
61% |
65% |
66% |
67% |
|
|
|
Kerry Share (%) |
|
|
|
|
Kerry Share (%) |
|
||||
|
90% |
64.0 |
64.2 |
64.5 |
64.8 |
65.1 |
|
12% |
62.4 |
63.0 |
63.6 |
63.7 |
63.9 |
|
92% |
63.6 |
63.9 |
64.2 |
64.5 |
64.8 |
|
11% |
62.1 |
62.7 |
63.3 |
63.4 |
63.6 |
|
94% |
63.3 |
63.6 |
63.9 |
64.1 |
64.4 |
|
10% |
61.8 |
62.4 |
63.0 |
63.2 |
63.3 |
|
96% |
63.0 |
63.3 |
63.5 |
63.8 |
64.1 |
|
9% |
61.5 |
62.1 |
62.7 |
62.9 |
63.0 |
|
98% |
62.6 |
62.9 |
63.2 |
63.5 |
63.8 |
|
8% |
61.2 |
61.8 |
62.4 |
62.6 |
62.7 |
|
|
|
|
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|
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|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kerry Margin (mil.) |
|
|
|
|
Kerry Margin (mil.) |
|
||||
|
90% |
2.33 |
2.38 |
2.42 |
2.46 |
2.50 |
|
12% |
2.09 |
2.18 |
2.27 |
2.30 |
2.32 |
|
92% |
2.28 |
2.33 |
2.37 |
2.41 |
2.45 |
|
11% |
2.04 |
2.13 |
2.23 |
2.25 |
2.28 |
|
94% |
2.23 |
2.28 |
2.32 |
2.36 |
2.40 |
|
10% |
2.00 |
2.09 |
2.18 |
2.21 |
2.23 |
|
96% |
2.18 |
2.23 |
2.27 |
2.31 |
2.35 |
|
9% |
1.95 |
2.04 |
2.14 |
2.16 |
2.18 |
|
98% |
2.13 |
2.18 |
2.22 |
2.26 |
2.30 |
|
8% |
1.90 |
2.00 |
2.09 |
2.12 |
2.14 |
2008
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|||
|
2004 |
|
|
|
2008 |
|
|
|
Turnout in 2008 |
Unctd /
stuffed |
|||
|
Cast |
Official |
Unctd |
Alive |
Cast |
Official |
Unctd |
Mortality |
Kerry |
Bush |
Kerry |
Bush |
Other |
|
125.7 |
122.3 |
3.4 |
119.4 |
132.6 |
131.4 |
1.2 |
6.6 |
97% |
97% |
75% |
24% |
1% |
|
- |
97.3% |
2.7% |
95.0% |
- |
99.1% |
0.9% |
5.0% |
- |
- |
0% |
100% |
- |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
NY |
Vote (mil) |
|
|
Pct |
Share (%) |
|
Vote (mil) |
|
|
|||
|
2004 |
Cast |
Recorded |
Alive |
Turnout |
Mix |
Obama |
McCain |
Other |
Obama |
McCain |
Other |
Total |
|
DNV |
- |
- |
- |
0.6 |
8.1 |
78.1 |
21.9 |
0.0 |
0.5 |
0.1 |
0.0 |
0.6 |
|
Kerry |
4.9 |
4.3 |
4.7 |
4.5 |
58.9 |
91.1 |
8.2 |
0.7 |
4.1 |
0.4 |
0.0 |
4.5 |
|
Bush |
2.6 |
3.0 |
2.5 |
2.4 |
31.6 |
20.2 |
79.1 |
0.7 |
0.5 |
1.9 |
0.0 |
2.4 |
|
Other |
0.1 |
0.1 |
0.1 |
0.1 |
1.4 |
66.0 |
21.7 |
12.3 |
0.1 |
0.0 |
0.0 |
0.1 |
|
True |
7.7 |
7.4 |
7.3 |
7.7 |
|
67.4 |
31.8 |
0.8 |
5.2 |
2.5 |
0.1 |
7.7 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
2004 |
Kerry |
Bush |
Other |
Recorded |
62.8 |
36.1 |
1.1 |
4.8 |
2.7 |
0.1 |
7.6 |
|
|
Recorded |
58.4 |
40.1 |
1.5 |
Diff |
|
4.5 |
-4.2 |
-0.3 |
0.4 |
-0.3 |
0.0 |
0.1 |
|
ExitP |
64.5 |
34.0 |
1.5 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Cast |
59.0 |
39.4 |
1.5 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
True |
64.1 |
34.4 |
1.5 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bush |
|
Kerry voter turnout |
|
|
Share of |
Obama Share of DNV |
||||||
|
turnout |
90% |
92% |
94% |
96% |
98% |
|
Bush |
76% |
77% |
78% |
79% |
80% |
|
|
|
Obama Share (%) |
|
|
|
|
Obama Share (%) |
|
||||
|
90% |
68.1 |
68.2 |
68.4 |
68.5 |
68.7 |
|
19% |
66.7 |
66.8 |
66.9 |
67.0 |
67.1 |
|
92% |
67.7 |
67.8 |
68.0 |
68.2 |
68.3 |
|
18% |
66.4 |
66.5 |
66.6 |
66.7 |
66.8 |
|
94% |
67.3 |
67.5 |
67.6 |
67.8 |
67.9 |
|
17% |
66.1 |
66.2 |
66.3 |
66.4 |
66.4 |
|
96% |
66.9 |
67.1 |
67.2 |
67.4 |
67.6 |
|
16% |
65.8 |
65.9 |
66.0 |
66.0 |
66.1 |
|
98% |
66.5 |
66.7 |
66.9 |
67.0 |
67.2 |
|
15% |
65.5 |
65.6 |
65.6 |
65.7 |
65.8 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obama Margin (mil.) |
|
|
|
|
Obama Margin (mil.) |
|
||||
|
90% |
2.85 |
2.87 |
2.90 |
2.93 |
2.95 |
|
19% |
2.65 |
2.66 |
2.68 |
2.69 |
2.70 |
|
92% |
2.79 |
2.82 |
2.84 |
2.87 |
2.89 |
|
18% |
2.60 |
2.61 |
2.63 |
2.64 |
2.65 |
|
94% |
2.73 |
2.76 |
2.78 |
2.81 |
2.83 |
|
17% |
2.55 |
2.57 |
2.58 |
2.59 |
2.60 |
|
96% |
2.68 |
2.70 |
2.73 |
2.75 |
2.78 |
|
16% |
2.50 |
2.52 |
2.53 |
2.54 |
2.55 |
|
98% |
2.62 |
2.64 |
2.67 |
2.69 |
2.72 |
|
15% |
2.46 |
2.47 |
2.48 |
2.49 |
2.51 |